Friday, December 5, 2008

Thanks for the Love!


48 comments and counting to my first post back. I really enjoyed the heated debate between posters. So much so that I will use this post to touch on the subjects asked/discussed by you.

Phoenix/Firebird Merger- How did it work out?
  • It worked out great.
  • There was lots of movement during the season. Players played up and down throughout the season.
  • I can't believe more teams in this country don't do it. If you won't practice with b teamers because it "affects the level of play", you're clearly short sighted and elitist. And you'll pay for it later on.
  • I think that although GOAT and GT are not fully integrated... I think they are another model to look at. It's very nice to see good players move through the system...
The University Season
  • Yes, I missed my favorite season and the one that drives my blog visits through the roof
  • Yes, it's too short
  • Yes, U of T won the open title AGAIN and it wasn't close
  • Yes, UBC won the women's title again and it wasn't close
  • Yes, I do think it's important to spread the game to cities and areas that need exposure to ultimate. However, the teams absent from nationals really sent a message to me about being careful about where we put university events.
  • As is often the case, easterns was the true nationals. I was delighted to see Western come one step closer to winning the crown, finishing second to U of T. Now, with Scott Hislop returning next fall from exchange, can he and Mark Lloyd deliver?
The University Season in Canada
  • I still prefer the fall season over spring
  • I like the idea of an indoor tourney or indoor series, it may very well help our team's chances at college series tournaments in the spring
  • I think CUPA will be stepping forward with better direction and better planning in the coming years with regards to the University series.
Competition Committee
  • Qualified persons should definitely sign up!
  • The link via Higy is right here

Bonus: UPA versus Cultimate
  • Nice job UPA, way to sit back and not protect your products and your business
  • The barriers to entry in Ultimate business is quite low. That's an understatement
  • I didn't know much about the National Collegiate Ultimate Association and the people behind it, but I am quite sure they're not that great,,, just an alternative to an existent service that also leaves the consumer wanting.


jordomeron said...

lloyd could even make easterns for western this year and they did more than hold their own with players like watts and andy, and skrypek was injured SO i predict a blowout next year having hisop and hopefully lloyd back too as long as it doesnt conflict with GOATs camp

jordomeron said...

and when i say could, i mean couldnt

jordomeron said...

AND higgy of course i forgot to mention him

higy said...


andysiy said...

wooo western! i love you higgy

T1000 said...

"Clearly short-sighted and elitist," Steve? Those are pretty strong words. I definitely respect your professional opinion on the subject, but aren't you basing that on one season of personal experience? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

P.S. -- I hope to crash the hat tourney on the 28th. Looking forward to seeing you guys.

Sport Management Steven said...

I'm not allowed to discuss Higgy. A couple of his Waterloo teammates begged me not to put him up on a pedestal.

Yes, Hislop and Llyod have a great opportunity ahead.. due to their talent and the talent of their supporting cast. As important as it is to bring in strong talent from the club system, it's important to have people like Watts, Harding, and Horgan who are Western developed and don't play club. Even Torontoula, (with the X factor) had/needed these players.

Sport Management Steven said...


I was way too over the top with the comment. I just wanted someone to take the bait.

However, the long term vitality of a program depends on bringing in the best talent, and it makes no sense not to cast a wide net and to take the time and effort ( full integration) to take a B team and make it just one program.

Jeff said...

"and it makes no sense not to cast a wide net and to take the time and effort ( full integration)"

what that other dude is trying to say is, there are clearly, obviously, necessarily, certainly, undoubtedly upsides in not dilluting practice with an extra 20 players when you are trying to win this year. the argument could be made, although i would still disagree, that for 3-4 years down the road opening up practices to a large amount of players might be more beneficial. unless i am mistaken on what you mean by full integration.

Sport Management Steven said...


The prevailing argument for not going with the program/integration is that those extra 20 guys will dillute practice so much. Is that just conventional wisdom? Won't these players simply take some time to ramp up and then play up to the level?

I'm certainly okay with breaking up clubs for a percentage of scrimmages and/or practices... but think of all the fall/winter/spring/summer sessions that could be used to develop talent.

I'm getting to the point where I wonder if a team can be short sighted and focus on just winning now. If you're not elite, it will take a real program/vision carried out for several years to get to the same level as Sockeye, Jam, etc.

And if you are elite, you have to be grooming replacements at each and every position. Otherwise, you're harvesting your existing talent and you're starting the process of shutting down your program.. or setting them back in future years.

jhaig said...

I think there deffinately should be a strong interaction between teams in an A and B system. Your top players should be making efforts to teach B team players; they will be your team mates in the long run.

However, I think you over-value integrated practicing. Practice time is limited, and the honest fact of the matter is that both the A and B team need to have a certain drive to win now and play together as individual teams and focus on the current season.

Sport Management Steven said...

I'm hearing some counter views here that are respectable and from people I respect. However, I've heard them all before.

"Practice Time is Limited"

Over the course of the year, you probably practice as follows:

6 months * two practices a week* 4.3 weeks per month* 2 full hours of practice minimum = 103.2 hours of practice for the average frisbee team.

Then add the offseason sessions: 4 months of one practice a week, 2 hours per practice= 34.4 hours of practice..

So, your average team spends 103.2 + 34.4 hours of practice time during one year.. about 137.6 hours of practice time.

137.6 hours is a lot of time. You have time for a lot of integration. In fact, with 137.6 hours of practice time, the issue might be complacency more than getting specific team plans rolled out and mastered.

With proper attendance (which should be a given) you really have no excuses about a lack of practice time.

Taylor said...

I'm going to state the obvious and say that it's not just black and white here. Joint practices are very important for the development of a system. a) it exposes players to a higher level and they are forced to raise their game and b) it's inspirational. These may seem similar, but I make the distinction that b) has a more lasting effect.

However, joint practices are not necessarily the best thing for the A team in the short term. The dilution brings down the level and intensity of drills to some degree. More importantly, it is harder to build team chemistry with twice as many people.

I would suggest that integrated practices be less frequent (1 in 4 MAX I would say). Ultimate is not a sport where you learn by instruction. The captain does not go around to everyone on the team to correct their throwing form. Instead, you learn by watching the top players and then implementing certain aspects into your game/form and doing it over and over. This implementation can happen during separate practices, while the A team works on their own thing without being slowed down. As I said, the inspiration that comes from playing with the best guys is huge and lasts at least a few practices.

MYeo said...

1. UofT
2. UBC
3. Waterloo
4. Western

Queen's might make top 4, if not for complete lack of swagger this year. UW scares bitches when we put dudes on the field for a change.

Sport Management Steven said...

"UW scares bitches when we put dudes on the field for a change."

Now that's swagger!

jhaig said...

Swagger and winning tournaments often go hand in hand.